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Use of Force


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100 5886 Sarge276 45 posts

OC is definitely a good thing for line officers to have. I think all CO’s should be qualified at the academy and carry their first day back. As for use of force, we really aren’t taught the continuum in Oklahoma. We’re taught DT and PPCT and to use only whatever force necessary to stop the aggressive action or regain/maintain control and I think that’s a good thing. The last thing I want one of my officers doing when the poopy hits the fan is trying to remember what’s the next step in the continuum while he, I, or anyone else is getting their anal region handed to them. If it comes down to a deadly force situation I’m doing what I gotta do and I’m going home at the end of shift. Its better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Flag shakey 191 posts

Thats why I try to make happy faces on my taget so I can have a happy gun in my holster…:)

At my Institution as an Ohio State Corrections Officer we all carry OC, we started carrying it a few months ago, We did had a few officers think it was to take place of thier IPC skills but it has settled down now and used when needed. As for use of force, heck we can kick them also use your knees and use hammer chops and so forth. Compared to when I first started in Law enforcement in the 80’s, these are blessed times for using force that otherwise would have been lable excessive.

12517963451487469754us department of justice seal svg hi CHZBURGR 29 posts

As a use of force instructor for my agency I have to disagree with przn boss. What we learn in training is what you will do when the $&@# hits the fan. Which is why we are so careful what we teach officers. This is why we teach things like tactical and combat reloads because we need to make sure we holster a happy gun. It’s a proven fact what you do on the range is what you will do in real life situations.

Male user Squeeze 70 posts

I know of two jails that allow the use of Chemical agents. Collin Cnty in Plano ,Tx. and I believe Grand Rapids Mi. I went on a tour way back in 2000 visiting several jails and those two were issuing OC to line staff. you may want to contact those facilities to see if they keep stats to support the use at the line staff level. I absolutely suport the use of OC at line staff. At my age I just too darn old to keep fighting the young guys. (thats what I want them to believe). :-)

Male user felixdacat76 2 posts

Let me clarify why I am asking the question that I did. At my facility, line officers are not equipped with tasers, OC spray, batons or anything. Therefore, based on policy, the lowest level of physical force our officers use is hands-on control tactics. Supervisors and specialty officers (court transport, CERT, etc.) may be issued this equipment and they will be the ones to employ it. I am also a member of our CERT team and we are not equipped with many less-lethal munitions (bean bag rounds, Pepperball, etc.)… instead, we are trained in the old riot line formations.

I feel that these hands-on approaches increase the potential for someone to get seriously injured. I believe that if we used less-lethal munitions before going hands-on, we can alleviate or prevent injuries from happening. I want to see if other agencies practice this in their use of force policies.

P.S. When it hits the fan, I’m also doing what I need to do to go home at night. I don’t think anyone will argue that point.

Northwest hounded police animated avatar 100x100 90714 prznboss 44 posts

I’d rather be unemployed than dead. Sure I have the continuum memorized and when time allows will follow it. However, common sense and your abilities are what will kick in when it hits the fan and I will not hesitate for a second trying to recall what the book says I should do. In 15 years I’ve never received a negative log entry and have never seen the inside of a court room except for back when I worked court security. You either have common sense or you don’t. It’s that simple. You can’t learn this job from a book.

Buckeye flag Mudflap 293 posts

I don’t care if my department has a continuum or not.

Is that a gag? I’ll certainly do whatever is needed so that everyone goes home at end of shift, but I’m fully aware of what force I’m allowed to use and under what circumstances I’m allowed to use it. I’m also aware of under what circumstances I am allowed to skip steps in our use of force contiuum. Like CHZBURGR said, to operate outside of it would certainly find ME unemployed.

12517963451487469754us department of justice seal svg hi CHZBURGR 29 posts

Prznboss’ comment makes him sound irrisponsible. The continuum is there to protect us against litigation. It is a basic table that shows what a responsible person would do. It is our responsibility as correctional professionals to use the tools provided. The continuum is just one of them. To operate outside of it would probably find us unemployed.

Male user Squeeze 70 posts

Thats fine prznboss, no one says not to do what is neccesary to go home in one piece. But I was simply responding to the question. I’v been in 106 altercations in the last 28 years and so far not too worse for the wear.That time includes stints as CERT Supervisor and Instructor. Point is the these are tools for us as proffessional Corrections officers and the question was asked.

Northwest hounded police animated avatar 100x100 90714 prznboss 44 posts

I don’t care if my department has a continuum or not. If I’m in a situation I’m going to do what needs to be done and they can shove their continuum right square up their back side. Pepper spray is great. I will not work in a facility without it. I took a Z to the face (eyes, nose and mouth) so I’m in a position to say it’s fine and I can defend it in court. The only one I’m familiar that it’s controversial with is inmates and their families.

Male user Squeeze 70 posts

Here where I work in a large jail in NE we are required to follow our force continuum as prescribed by PPCT/Warrior Science. While that companies force continuum does not specify a particular intermediate weapon, there is room there for us to write our policy specifying what and how to deploy those tools. Unfortunately here in NE we as usual, we are well behind the times when it comes to tools to use in such cases. PPCT does not endorse the use of OC as there is too much controversy with the validation of the risks vs. benefits. Many studies have been done, however most have been funded by manufacturers and not so scientific research. I as an instructor personally believe the benefits outweigh the risks based on empirical data collected from thousands of uses. Currently only secondary causes of deaths have been attributed to use. Use of the OC has not been attributed to the death of inmates resulting in anaphylactic reactions. Abuse of the OC has caused several deaths due to using a whole dispenser on inmates at one discharge causing a respiratory crisis due to anxiety resulting in an asthma attack. The use of tazers isn’t even in the picture yet for us. The force cont. can be found at:http://www.warriorsciencegroup.com/human_factor_training_systems.html
We still go hands on too often. We do use OC on Rare occaisions but only a Supervisor is allowed to dispence and we haven’t had them trainer in quite some time. Note that the only Offficial Training comes from the manufacturers of that specific brand.

Buckeye flag Mudflap 293 posts

I agree, Chzburger. Not many departments understand that concept. It makes sense that using OC before “hands on” would cut down on injuries. Who do you work for?

I don’t have any idea where to find the answer to the OP’s question, though.

12517963451487469754us department of justice seal svg hi CHZBURGR 29 posts

In my agency the use of OC (hopefully tazer soon) is employed before you go hands on. If the situation has escalated to the point of being hands on then it has escalated to the point of tazers and or OC.

Male user felixdacat76 2 posts

Greetings all,

Forgive me if this has been asked before, but I am looking for all the information I can get on this subject. I am trying to find instances where Use of Force continuums or matrices push for less-lethal devices (Taser, OC spray, Pepperball, etc.) BEFORE hands-on physical intervention by staff. I am interested in seeing how much less injuries to staff and inmates are reported in agencies that operate in this fashion. I would like to know if this is an increasing trend as the field of corrections evolves. If you have any information or know where I could find some, please let me know.

Thanks and be safe!

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